Above It All Podcast: Episode 31

Above It All Podcast Episode 31 features SBS Product Manager, Jacob Heaps. This episode we introduce a new adhesive for our SBS line, DynaSet 1K. Designed to make your SBS projects go faster than ever, join us as we cover the benefits of this product, and its application as well as our new 1-Part PermaFlash®. 

Above It All is a podcast by Johns Manville dedicated to the roofing industry. The goal of this podcast is to bring knowledge from a Johns Manville perspective on trends, innovations, and people shaping the roofing industry. Join us as we dive head first into enriching conversations about the people and passion that are an integral part of the JM experience.

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Daniel Robbins: Here we are again for another episode of Above It All, a roofing podcast dedicated to the industry by Johns Manville. Today we have Jacob Heaps back on. He’s gonna tell us a little bit about some exciting new products that he has coming out for SBS. And I believe, Jacob, correct me if I’m wrong, these can apply... One of them can apply to other products other than just SBS, right? 

Jacob Heaps: Yeah, so it’s an SBS adhesive meant to put down SBS membranes, but we have some third party approvals and some testing that allows you to utilize this product in a single ply type system that would utilize an SBS vapor retarder on the bottom part of the system. So it’s a nice application, I think so. Some people might hear SBS adhesive and kind of tune it out, but I think when you look at the overall product value, it encompasses a lot more than just SBS systems.

Daniel Robbins: That’s cool. So you can get multi-use application out of a DynaSet 1K. That’s what you said, right? That’s the name of it.

Jacob Heaps: Yep. Yeah, so DynaSet 1K, it’s a one-part solvent-free cold-application adhesive. So, obviously, some high level highlights there is the solvent-free portion of it. So there’s a concern about strong odors at all with a little typical SBS cold-application adhesives, this product would alleviate those concerns. Then the second cool feature about it is actually a moisture curing process. So historically, the typical SBS cold adhesives generally utilize a solvent base that kind of softens up the membrane to build that bond, but this product actually cures with ambient moisture in the air and creates a really strong chemical bond between the membrane and the adhesives. So it’s a different type of curing process from the other adhesives that we offer.

Daniel Robbins: That’s fascinating. Is this a newer adhesive process that we’ve kinda dived into, or we’ve just kind of been perfecting it over the years? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah, it’s penetrated the roofing market, it’s something you might see a lot of in other building materials. So the flooring market, you might see it in cox and sealants and stuff. Moisture cures it’s a technology that’s been utilized there quite a bit. It’s starting to definitely penetrate the roofing market as things such as ambient moisture and concrete become a concern for design purposes.

Daniel Robbins: Well, it makes sense, ‘cause the whole reason for roofing systems is to keep moisture out, so they’re always interacting with moisture. So it seems like maybe that cure process, does it solidify fast or is it something that just keeps getting better over time because of the moisture? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah, so it continuously builds that bond with exposure to additional moisture, but another nice benefit of this product is especially in the humid climates, you get really quick set up time, whereas our current MBR cold adhesive takes about 28 days for the solvent to fully cure out, and that’s considered full cure then. With this product, you will start to see a skinning and a cure above 43-45 minutes in those high humidity type environment. So you do get a really quick setup during install, which is a nice feature, builds a lot of green strength right off the bat, for the membrane.

Daniel Robbins: Very cool, very cool. So let’s talk about the install a little bit. What is the application of this product like? Is it easy to put down, does it require more labor? What are your ideas about that? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah. So there’s two main installation techniques to this product. So, it’s a black viscous liquid, very similar to other cold application adhesives. So it’s something that a lot of contractors, customers will be familiar with just based on pouring it out and you can do a full coverage inter-ply adhesion similar to what you do with other cold adhesives, right? So you take a notched squeegee, spread it around and get that full inter-ply bond. There’s also a new application that we’re coming out with, which is a cart applied ribbon application, and this is mainly geared towards those SBS vapor retarders, especially on concrete decks. So a nice benefit there is you can load up to four panels of this material on time in a walkable cart, you don’t have one of your employees walking backwards dragging the cart, putting down the ribbon and then having like few kinda falling behind flying in the membrane. So this should definitely be a nice labor saving because you can accomplish a lot of squares in a quick amount of time with that technique. Like I said, it’s a new technique that we have. We haven’t been able to offer that with our current cold adhesives.

Daniel Robbins: I am sorry if I missed this, did you say they use a squeegee to put it down, or is it like a squeegee or what kind of tool is it that you would lay out this material with? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah. So if you can do the full coverage of our current cold adhesives, yeah, use a quarter-inch notched squeegee to spread it around, making sure you get full coverage across the entire membrane, so you can do the same thing here if you wanted to go with that application. But like I mentioned and the other benefit is the cart one where you can apply this in ribbons, but you can get a nice venting pattern underneath this feed for vapor retarder applications.

Daniel Robbins: Wow, that’s very cool. So it sounds like it’s gonna be a slam dunk product for customers, there’s another product that’s coming out with this, let’s move on and talk about that. And that is the PermaFlash®, is that PermaFlash 1K or what is the full name for it? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah. DynaSet 1K is what we just hit on. So the new one is one part PermaFlash and there’s a trend there, right? So our current PermaFlash offering is actually a two-part system. So it requires a flashing base liquid and then an activator that starts the curing process in that material. And that’s been a great product for us where we’ve had down the market for a long period of time. It’s got great proven performance. We heard loud and clear that customers and contractors are looking for something that might be a little bit easier to use, so one-part PermaFlash is a liquid applied flashing system, that can be utilized without any sort of mixing. So it’s just straight out of the can, give it a quick stir and then you can apply it as you would with our two-part PermaFlash.

Daniel Robbins: Now, when you say, stir, that’s the catalyst like mixing oxygen into it, I’m guessing or can it literally just come right out on to whatever detail you wanna do? 

Jacobs Heaps: Right out of the can, yeah. So the stir is just to make sure that if any separation of the... It’s an asphaltic urethane liquid. And so if there’s any separation during transport or storage, it can separate into those two components, but you can just stir right back together and apply as needed. So it’s a nice... Really what’s kicking off the cure is once it’s applied. So this product is a bit more sensitive to moisture compared to the two-part, and that’s all detailed on the data sheet in terms of, we don’t recommend applying it if there’s moisture in the atmosphere or any moisture coming in the next 12 hours, I should say, that’s when the two-part would still be a better option. So really we’re trying to have good options across the board for any sort of weather condition that you might have or any certain circumstance that might pop-up in a particular job.

Daniel Robbins: Yeah, that one-part is cool though, it sounds like there’s a huge material savings really for the manufacturer, and the... I guess you’re not working as heavy as a piece of... Or I guess as heavy as a container, ‘cause you’re using less material? Or is it just the same amount of material, it’s just all mixed together? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah, it’s the same amount of material. So we’ll have a one-gallon offering as well as a five-gallon pail offering. But yeah, so the big benefit is that you don’t have to buy two SKUs. You can buy one SKU. The other nice benefit of this product it’s actually reusable. So once you mix the current two-part system, you have a pot life that eventually expires, and so if you have any extra material in there that can obviously be a waste, and so if you over buy or under buy for a job, that can be an issue. With this new one, you can utilize it for about four weeks after its opening. It will start curing as soon as it’s opened, but you can actually cut out any curing layer in the container and continue to use it for up to four weeks. So, obviously a big benefit for contractors who might have a little bit left over from a certain job, but they wanna use on a new job, it’s just nice to keep around in the truck as well for any sort of repairs that might need to be done.

Daniel Robbins: That’s very fascinating. So I know you’ve probably seen what the material looks like at four weeks, and it’s just as malleable as you need it to be to get the flashing done? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yup, yeah, so the tell-tale sign for this product will be, once it’s cured and no longer usable, it becomes a solid, but sometimes you’ll see it in like, paints or roof coatings, where you start to get a thin layer on the top and then basically cures it’s way through the rest of the pail as it sits. And so the same thing will happen with this product, whereas if you do get a thin layer on top, you can just cut it out, re-stir the remaining material and continue to use it. So, like I said, four weeks is generally what you can expect, and that’ll be depending... Obviously it can go one week either way, probably based on storage conditions and that sort of stuff. But it’s a nice benefit versus the four-hour pot life that you might get with the current product.

Daniel Robbins: Very cool, very cool. I know we have our MBR flashing cement. What situations would that be better or remain a better option in? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah, like I mentioned, so if there’s any sort of rain or snow, missed any of that stuff in the forecast and the 12 hours after application, we will still recommend that product just because it is an activated curing process, so that’ll be a nice benefit for it. We do use it for certain situations, like pond and water situations and stuff currently, that will still remain the better option for that. So yeah, I think it’s, again, we’re just trying to offer a solution to any situation that might pop up on a roof for any given day. A lot of contractors really utilize whichever product they feel is best for their certain situation.

Daniel Robbins: Gotcha, gotcha. That’s very cool. Well, so that’s it for time. I wanted to ask though, when were these products released and then how can people get a hold of these products? 

Jacobs Heaps: Yeah, so all of the announcements went out first week of February, February 7th. So they should be readily available within the JM network by the end of February, you’re ready to ship into the busy season this spring. We’ll be stocking them throughout the network, obviously they’ll go hand-in-hand with a lot of our major SBS stocking locations and a lot of that stocking locations. So yeah, I think they’ll be readily available, at the end of the month is a big take away and looking forward to seeing the adoption in the marketplace.

Daniel Robbins: Yeah, that’s gonna be exciting to see what contractors think about it. Well, Jacob, thank you so much for your time, I appreciate you and thanks so much for enlightening us on these new products for the SBS line.

Jacobs Heaps: No problem, Daniel. Thanks for having me out again today.

Daniel Robbins: Alright, talk to you later. Thanks everyone for tuning in. Please go subscribe if you haven’t yet, iTunes, Above It All, or type in Johns Manville, it will come right up. It’s not iTunes, what am I saying? It’s Apple Podcast now. But yeah, go there, download the app, if you don’t have it. It’s just the easiest way to get the latest episodes and you’ll get notifications on your phone, and that way you don’t miss a beat when it comes to product launches, new initiatives that we’re doing as a brand, and then also just general knowledge about what we do, the services that we offer, the products that we offer, and how those impact our customers in a positive way. With that, stay safe everyone and we will catch you next time.